Monday, 29 January 2007

Our Children Need Overdue Support

As a Libyan this subject is always on my mind, a mass murder has been committed against our children, many have died, many are dying, most of us felt a slight relief when we heard that all the infected children have gone to Europe with their families to get the latest in medical treatment no expenses spared just to find out that many of these sick children are being kicked out of hospitals and their families are being thrown out as well because it seems the hospitals are not getting any money from Libya, some children are being treated by hospitals run by Christian charities, these of course are to be thanked for what they are doing.
I think the way Europe dealt with this massive problem is disgraceful, after so much threatening behaviour & bullying directed against Libya, the Libyan authorities have put the Bulgarian & Palestinian medics on another trial that was watched by the American & the Europeans, the standards used in this trial was to their approval, in fact no Libyan would have a trial under these international standards, the verdict was the same, those medics are guilty, yet the west is still not happy and is still threatening Libya with a language that I can only describe as low class, I myself am not very convinced that the medics are guilty, there is more to this than we are led to know, if Libya has the evidence that would convict them without a doubt then it is fair that these evidence are made public and shown to the international community but what I found unacceptable is the American & European bullying and their insistence that these medics are innocent, why don't they show evidence of their innocence? and if they want to show support to their medics why don't they show some support to the children and their families? there are demonstrations, support ribbons ....etc for 6 medics that could be guilty of one of the worst crimes against children ever yet I have yet to see or hear any support or media coverage of our innocent victims, there are over 400 infected children & mothers it is as if they do not count, why is that?

I have lived most of my life in Europe, I have enjoyed their freedom, their democracy, their respect for human rights, what I am seeing now is plain unfair plus all this threatening behaviour is just a load of rubbish, we all know that Europe needs investments in Libya and that it needs the Libyan oil, there is no way that they will boycott any of that, on the other hand Libya is allowing them to bully and threaten and put Libya's image even more in the gutter.
If these Medics are guilty then Libya has to prove it to the world, has to prove that Libyan justice has been done, Libya promised to pay what ever it takes to treat the children yet this is not happening, the children are still suffering.

Are we going to see some sort of kind support from Europe towards these children?
Europe announced recently that it has collected about 120 Million Euros to help treat the children but that the money will not be be given to the victims until the medics are released! is this right?? so if the medics are still in Jail then Europe is saying let your children suffer and die, we are not helping them.

Of course if the medics are innocent then they need support BUT SO DO OUR CHILDREN
I have posted a video before which supported the Bulgarian & Palestinian medis, now I am posting this video which although is against them but it does not represent my opinion, I still need to see more proof that they are guilty just like the rest of the world I still think that there is more to this tragedy than what we are being told. I believe all sides stories should be represented.
This video/song is in Arabic but you do not need to understand Arabic to watch it, it is clear that these children need support, I dare anyone to watch it without shedding a tear or two!

Here is another upsetting video of the children and their families that I found on Google Video but for some reason I could not embed here!

Benghazi's Aids Victims , ضحايا الأيدز فى بنغازى

I am sorry if these videos made you feel sad, if they made you cry and if they made you think but I am not sorry for showing them, I think we all have a responsibility towards our neglected children, the world needs to see their suffering, children should always come first.

Living Away posted a good article about this tragedy last month, you can read it HERE.


Chatalaine said...

I do not understand why the guilty or innocense of the medics would be linked to helping the children. How they got aids or where the children are from makes no difference the children need help.

AngloLibyan said...

Chatalaine, this is exactly my point, the medics could be guilty or innocent, the Libyan authorities could be guilty or innocent, this has been going for more than 8 years in the mean time the children are being neglected by all sides, shame on the whole world.

Safia speaks said...

Those poor kids!
Think about their disease and the pressure on their families! The social isolation in life when people know they have AIDS!

And then I read how the Bulgarian nurses complain that they had to share a jail cell with LIBYANS!
A lot of people should be very, very ashamed!!!

My opisnion is, that those nurses should not be executed. That will not bring these kids a better life that we strangle, hang, poison or shoot other people. In stead they should be forced to work free for the rest of their lives---on the other hand, who would be brave enough to dare receive medical treatment from them?!

A very sad and terrible case for everyone involved.

AngloLibyan said...

Safia, guilty or not guilty, as you said executing them is not going to bring these kids a better life.
how would you punish who ever is responsible? this is very difficult as the crime committed is beyond description.
the nurses have complained a lot, the media mad sure we know about it. the children & their families have no say what so ever, that just cant be right

Anonymous said...

I do not understand why the Libya not pay for the children treatment and let charities pay for it, what they are doing. لاحولة ولاقوة إلابلله

programmer craig said...

why don't they show evidence of their innocence?

The concept of justice is "innocent until proven guilty" - not "guilty until proven innocent."

In any case, they HAVE been proven innocent. With evidence sufficient to get the case dismissed in any court in the US or Europe.

Why do you call it bullying, when people complain about the way Libya treats foreign nationals? Is it bullying, when people in the ME complain about Guantanamo Bay, or Abu Ghraib?

Sorry, AngloLibyan, you are on the wrong side on this one.

programmer craig said...

in fact no Libyan would have a trial under these international standards

That's a good point. Why has no Libyan been put on trial for creating the conditions that caused that epidemic? The dating of the virus in those children indicates they were infected before the nurses even arrived in Libya. At least, that's what the scientists of the journal "Nature" have concluded. If true, that means the people who are ACTUALLY responsible are have been allowed to walk away from what they did with no punishment whatsoever. They are probably still hospital staffers and administrators in Libya, to this day. Do you want your friends and family under their care?

And is this the kind of treatment that guest workers (and tourists) can expect, in Libya? It's insane. I would never travel to a country that treats foreign nationals that way, as a private citizen. I'm appalled that my country has not done MORE to voice my outrage, and tye outrage of every American, over the conduct of this case. How Libya treats Libyans is the business of Libya. How Libya treats foreign nationals is EVERYONE"S business.

Ghazi Gheblawi said...

This issue is becoming hotter every day. I had the chance to meet the relatives and some of the children when they came to London for a press conference before the last verdict were announced. As most of you mentioned the issue here is not 5 or 6 nurses, it’s a 400 plus children that are suffering everyday and will be for a long time.
The reaction from the EU is shameful, on one aspect, because at the beginning knowing the human rights record of Libya they said that the first trail was tainted with irregularities, and demanded that the Libyan government stop its manipulation of the case, so when they got their retrial they praised it as the right step, then when the last verdict came out under their supervision, now they are demanding that Mr. Gaddafi use his power to free them, so now they say you are totalitarian regime and you need to use your omnipotent authority.
There are pages after pages in the court’s verdict that mentions in details the evidence the prosecution has gathered incriminating these people, it is true that there are still plenty of question mark especially those concerning the motives, but there is plenty of evidence and it is there for people to read, it might be all circumstantial evidence, but hay AbdulBaseet Magrahi of the PANAM- Lockerbie case was convicted on circumstantial evidence not proven ones and he got a life sentence. What matters is the evidence not what we think the real truth is.
And for Programmer Craig, sorry I beg to differ, there is no solid evidence claiming their innocence, as for the article in the Journal (Nature) it is not a scientific study it is just and editorial, and it gives an opinion of people who didn't visit the children didn't examine them or investigated any blood samples, and it is built on mere speculation, but as usual they published it in a big and famous scientific journal so the media took it as a solid fact, while ignoring other important facts in the case. Again lets not forget the real victims here, its these children.. May they be blessed...

programmer craig said...

Hi Ghazi,

You're taken the Libyan government party line on this Journal Nature study.

And for Programmer Craig, sorry I beg to differ, there is no solid evidence claiming their innocence

There doesn't NEED to be, as I pointed out before. There needs to be solid evidence of GUILT. Not evidence of innocence. For those of you who insist that Westerners should be happy that the second trial has been conducted according to western standards, how can you say so? Ghazi is the second commentert in this thread who has implied that it is the innocence of the nurses which must be proven, and not the guilt. That's not a western concept of justice. That's not justice at all. I could accuse you of something, Ghazi, that you could not prove you were innocent of. Would taht make you guilty?

as for the article in the Journal (Nature) it is not a scientific study it is just and editorial

This is not true. There were two articles in that issue. One was a scientific study. The other was an editorial.

and it gives an opinion of people who didn't visit the children didn't examine them or investigated any blood samples, and it is built on mere speculation...

Molecular HIV evidence backs accused medics

They did visit the children. They did take blood samples. The study was based on genetic sequencing of the actual HIV virus found in the children's bodies.

Again lets not forget the real victims here, its these children.. May they be blessed...

The nurses are also victims. Lets not forget them, either!

Lebeeya said...

Interesting how I was thinking about the whole issue these days and only to find it here! Honestly, I dont know if they are guilty or innocent, all I know is that the children are INNOCENT!

There's a lot more to the story that what we know. It just doesn't make sense that they would deliberately (or negligently) infect 400 something children with HIV. Something or someone is behind it all.

Plus Qaddaffi right now is in a sticky situation. If he interferes and let's the accused walk, there will be unrest in Libya, for sure. Then again, he must try to keep the west happy at the same time, as he's been working hard to get Libya out of the 'bad country' category.

Trabilsia said...

A very sad situation indeed but most of all for the children who have to pay the consequences.

I'm a very peaceful person and don't beleive in executing someone for any wrong doings, but at the same time they shouldn't be freed and instead be imprisoned or work under strict observation ...for the crime they committed.

Trabilsia said...

Dear PC, (Sorry Anglo )
What if we reversed the situation and the children were US citizens , leaving the nursing staff Libyan then what ????
Would you come to the same conclusion ???? How would you want the Libyans to be handled in this case???

MaySoon said...

There is more to it than we know for sure, I hope the truth comes to out soon for the sake of those suffering innocent children and their families.
However,The Libyan government should pay for their treatment no matter who is guilty and who is not. May Allah bless them, and be with their families. It is really saddening.

The Scottish Catholic said...

I agree that tnis is a terrible situation that has been handled so badly by all concerned. Regardless of the innocence or guilt of the foreign medical staff it was the Libyan government who employed them to work in the medical service. So therefore, it is the Libyan government who is ultimately responsible for this tragedy as their employer - The Libyan government is responsible for paying for the treatment for these children.
I am scottish, living in London and in this country the children would all have received appropriate treatment and none would have died. Also, the government itself would have had to take resonsibility and most likely the Health Minister would have to resign!
It is shameful that the west and Libya are arguing about this while innocent children are dying as a result of this governmental posturing by both sides.

A child's death and suffering is always a tragedy.

Gheriani said...

It's a sad and tragic story, and a very complicated one at that.
No comment.

AngloLibyan said...

anonymous, as Maysoon said, Libya is responsible and should pay.

P C, thank you for your comments, unfortunately you seem to have missed my point, your comments suggest that I am against the foreign medics when I very clearly stated that I am not convinced of their guilt, I made it clear that there is more to it than we know that Libya has done nothing much to help the children, I even posted before the documentary INJECTION which stands by the foreign medics.
The point of this post is the Children and their suffering which has been neglected by the whole world, the world is busy threatning to excute, threatning to boycott and to cut relations, this is taking a long time, in the mean time children are dying yet no one especially in Europe is talking about it, everyone is only interested in the nurses, of course we all want justice, of course if the nurses are not guilty then they should be released, justice in Libya and everywhere else takes a long time, these ill children have no time and when Europe says it collected money to help the children which is great but then it holds the money until the nurses are released this is not good, is it?
my post as well mentioned the lack of support from the Libyans as well so I am here talking against everyone, PC how can I be on the wrong side when I am on the children's side??
AS you mentioned the nurses should not be forgot as they are victims (if they are innocent) the whole Libyan population is heart broken because the children have been forgotten by the world media.
Forgive me PC but even you did not show any sympathey towards the main victims here.

lebeeya, it has become a game between the west and Libya and the children got forgotten.

Trabilsia, your point is very valid, how would any other country teat a problem like this?

Maysoon, yes I have made this point as well that there is more to it than we know and yes Libya is responsible for treating those children, it should have been done long time ago.

the scottish catholic, I thank you for your understanding, every thing you mentioned is exactly how I feel about it.
the west needs to show sympathy and stand by the children, this does not have to be money but recognition that these children who are now teenagers are suffering.

very sad indeed, thank you Gheriani

AngloLibyan said...

Ghazi, thank you for your valuable contribution to this, I have heard about the press conference but again there was hardly any (if any) media coverage.

white african said...

so sad, regardless of the blame i echo what most people have said about the children being innocent.

whether we like to admit it or not there really is an unjust system of treating the children, those deemed to be from the west get priorties in health care.

a childs life is precious regardless of where they are from.

programmer craig said...


What if we reversed the situation and the children were US citizens , leaving the nursing staff Libyan then what ????

Then they wouldn't have been imprisoned, tortured, and raped for a crime they didn't commit.

Would you come to the same conclusion ????

Yes, and furthermore, they would have never even been arrested, let alone prosecuted. Even if they *did* cause the epidemic (which in my opinion has been thoroughly debunked as a plausible theory) - the worst charge they could face is criminal negligence.

How would you want the Libyans to be handled in this case???

I'd want them set free. And I'd want the prosecutor who filed the case charged with false imprisonment and anything else appropriate.

Libya didn't even see fit to punish the 10 jailors charged with torturing these prisoners. I'm really at a loss to explain how Libyans can feel the way they do about this case.

For example, the idea that innocence is what must be proved, rather than guilt.

I will comment no further here on this matter. It's obvious to me that 100% of Libyans disagree with me on this. Just be aware, it is not only western GOVERNMENTS that are outraged by this case.

programmer craig said...

AngloLibyan, forgot one thing:

Forgive me PC but even you did not show any sympathey towards the main victims here.

That's because I saw the injustice done to the children being used to justify an injustice done to the nurses. And I haven't seen anybody condemning the main PERPETRATOR here - the Libyan Government. I didn't comment on the children at all, as a matter of fact. Nor would I, under these circumstances. If you wanted to make a post that addressed only the children, and nothing else, maybe I would have.

AngloLibyan said...

P C, I think most of us here have condemned the Libyan authorities oneway or the other.

You said innocent til proven guilty, so how come you are convinced that the Libyan jailers tortured and raped the nurses?? have they shown evidence? this is not fair but still I thank you as I am sure you want the best for everyone.

whiteafrican, I appreciate your comment, thank you.

Trabilsia said...

You seem to have taken the comment I made personal . I'm sorry if I sounded personal but I never meant to .
Women being raped by jailers is an everyday injustice done them all over the world , and the US/ Libya if proven is of no exception.
You see dear PC it is a common factor when you see real injustice done, and being of decent human nature you personally feel responsible .This shows great honesty. But when one looks at the governments involved in such situations we conclude that it's dirty business all over as usual. Each country confronting the other of being unjust.
Now where does that leave us ?? In this case the Libyan Government is the primary culprit because it is to blame for not checking the nursing staff to be qualified and mentally equipped in dealing with children.
And lastly the children ,their lives which have been devastated, should be on the top of our list. At the end of the day we do hope the children get the necessary treatment and are properly taken care of.

Living Away said...

first of all, thank you for linking me. it's a great honor!!

i have talked about this tragedy ever where i go and nobody knows a word about it. it makes me mad.
i stick with my point of view on it: i really don't care about who's fault! i just care about those kids, now teenagers!

can you imagine how miserable are their lives right now? they have being segregated from society, from schools and maybe from relatives and friends!
and all people care is who did that?? really for me it doesn't matter!! finding the one(s) who did that will not change the children's lives, unfortunatelly!

but also, i'm pretty sure that any doctor and any nurse in the world is responsable for their work as anyone else in the world is responsable for her/his work as well. poor hygiene condiction is also medical/health subject for sure.


AngloLibyan said...

Leandra many thanks for your comment which rightly shows a lot of support and sympathy with the children.

Maya M said...

I want to comment about the unwillingness of the Bulgarians to share a cell with Libyans, because I see it interpreted as racism.
I find it appropriate to keep certain prisoners separate from others if the latter are likely to hate them. E.g. in all countries I know, detained and sentenced policemen and prison guards are separated from ordinary detainees, to ensure that they won't be abused.
The same consideration applied here, because it was very likely for ordinary Libyan detainees to believe in the Bulgarians' guilt.

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