Sunday, 15 July 2007

Libya's Aids Victims

The Internet is full of speculations and rumours at the moment about Libya's Aids children and the faith of the Bulgarian nurses and the Palestinian doctor who has now been granted the Bulgarian nationality.
As usual nothing there is to be considered good news for the Libyans, if the news that Libya is to accept $400 million, about $1 million per family, is true what does that tell us? while many would consider $1 million a lot of money, it is not when it comes to compensating you for infecting your child with a deadly virus, its not a lot when medical treatments would cost a lot more for the duration of their life.
Libya led the world in proving that human life is worth at least $10 million when Libya agreed to pay this sum for the Lockerbie victims yet Libya is telling the world now that this only applies if you are not Libyan!
Many years have passed since this tragedy started, Libya shouted and screamed at the world to show their mercy to the children yet Libya never even attempted to make their life that little bit more comfortable let alone treat them with good medical care and respect.
Libya insisted on convicting the Bulgarian nurses and the doctor yet never really provided or showed the world any convincing evidence towards their conviction, no Libyan minister of health was ever prosecuted! no Libyans were ever stopped from working with the Libyan health system, I am just trying to imagine if this tragedy happened in Britain, what would happen? one thing for sure, The Health minister would go followed by many people in the NHS even if the culprits were foreign nationals.
After all this time and money spent to argue Libya's case they are saying Libyans are worth less than anyone else. Libya should not have ever asked for compensation, Libya does not need the money to look after its people, Libyans have been humiliated yet again just to save face but not to save life, we Libyans again prove to the world that we are the richest country with the poorest people, we have an Arabic saying: تمخض جبلآ فولد فأرآ , meaning a mountain gave birth to a mouse. لكم الله ياأطفال وشباب بنغازي
On the other hand, I would like to congratulate Bulgaria for sticking by its citizens, for never forgetting them, for never sparing any expense to show the world their plight. Europeans value their people even if they were guilty they will still do their best to get their citizens treated in the best possible way. There is a big lesson there for Libya on how to respect its own people and the sad thing is that we would probably never find out who the real culprits of this tragedy are.

39 comments:

a_akak said...

I am starting to confirm the extent of the conspiracy and political game played on these kids and families, as for the Nurses/Doctor, they are only the pawn here or a bargaining tool, it is a shame that we are played with as if we are in a game of chess and we are only the sacrificial dummies who mean nothing and having nothing to do with things.

I believe it’s only a matter of time before they are released, so I hope at least Libya got something good in return

Fe Aman Allah

Suliman said...

Anglo: Please don't call them "AIDS Children." I know that's what they call them in Libyan media, but no one ever accused Libyan media, inside or outside, of having the slightest clue about respecting humanity.

They are children with HIV/AIDS, and they are their parents' children, not "AIDS Children."

Also, the victims in this case include 19 infected mothers. We don't hear about them much because the don't quite serve the emotional message very well, even though they are just as human as their children. In documented court testimonies, Libyan health official confessed that they did not inform some families of their infants' infection. They let HIV-infected, breast-feeding children go home with their mothers without telling them anything. One of the testifying medics said they held information back because of "it's a dangerous situation" and because of the potential for compromising the parents' moral reputation. In other words, the risked the mothers' infection with HIV as a precaution against tainting their reputation with suspicion of practicing prostitution. I'll be damned!

Remarkably, the Libyan court let all those doctors go and they charged the foreign medics with causing the infection of those mothers! Who is really responsible for the infection of the mothers, the accused or the ones who knowingly failed to stop it?

This case is not only an absolute mockery of justice , it is also a mockery of public awareness and consciousness. I plan to blog more about the latter aspect, maybe later today...

Living Away said...

Well, you know what I think about this “case”.
Yesterday I read that Cecilia Sarkozy, French President Nicolas Sarkozy's wife, went to Libya- Tripoli and Benghazi- to talk “as mother” to Ghadafi and to some mothers asking for their forgiveness.
It’s outrageous how people all over the world think about this “case”. As a mother at least she could be more sensitive and try to walk on those mother’s shoes and feel their suffering.

You said if it were happened there in UK...well, think if just one child were infected in Britain or France or the USA...no country won’t put in check the sovereignty of those countries and their supreme courts decision as they are doing with Libya!
No country tried to hold back or contest with such vehemence Bush’s death sentences!

Again, as I have said for long time...and the children!?!?!?! Doesn’t any mother of president’s children care for them?

Anonymous said...

The HIV Catastrophe happened because of the failure of the Libyan Health System for decades.

Who in the right mind would believe that these nurses and doctor have infected 400 children and mothers with HIV deliberately. Unfortunately the Libyan Goverment does not want to take the responsibility of their failure in their health system. The Minister of Health and his top aides should be on trial, the whole world only knows about us is the trial of the Bulgarian nurses, once a while the poor Palestenian doctor is mentioned in the news.

You get fed up searching about Libya in Google News and all you get is the trial of Bulgarian nirses.


Just last week few people who went with the Libyan delegation to the African summit came back with Malaria because somebody was lazy to relay the message informing the whole delegation that they have to take mefloquine as some regions have resistant to chloroquine two weeks in advance of the departure to the summit.

The sad thing is that people who work in the hospital steal medical equipments and even beds get to be stolen.


The problem with Libyan Health System is that they pay their doctors low salaries that even a waitress in USA makes more money in a single night in tips than a Libyan doctor monthly salary.


I do not understand why the doctors in HIV departments were cut more than half, when the numbers of Libyans who are infected with AIDS are increasing in alarming numbers.
We have a time bomb in our hands, because Libya likes to show to the world that we have few numbers of patients. It is a dangerous stupid PR playing with the lives of people. The goverment increases the salaries of doctors from $400 to to $1200 and they cut the doctors in HIV departments more the 50% because they can not afford to pay the doctors !!!!!!!!!


Now Libyans go to Jordan, Tunis, Egypt and Dubai for health treatment, they lost faith in Libyan doctors. You have to pay top money for Libyan doctors and nurses so that we have good health system. I do not understand this stupid mentality that Libyans have to get paid low wages and we are rich country. No wonder we end up with corruption.

No Libyan would leave his country if he is paid a decent salary or is allowed to have a business.

MusicLover

Maya M said...

I've written about the trial of our nurses many times and I'm not going to do it here; let me just mention that Bulgarian politicians are now trying to present to us as a good thing that our accused nurses are sentenced to death (again) because it allegedly opens opportunities for political solution. Maybe, maybe; so far, those who have been optimistic about this case have been disappointed many times.
I disagree with AngloLibyan that Bulgaria stands for the nurses just because they are Bulgarians and it is a good thing always to stick by one's people. It is a national consensus that our nurses in Libya are innocent and therefore our government must campaign for their release. However, there are a number of Bulgarians accused or convicted abroad for various crimes (murder, robbery, fraud, drug dealing, women trafficking etc.). Nobody gives a damn about them.
I am trying to grasp the thoughts behind this AL's post and I am not succeeding very much. He seems to think that, whatever has happened, the West has to pay because it is ultimately its fault. Because the children were infected in a hospital and modern hospitals, like all modern medicine, are Western constructions. It seems to me that even though Libyans (and other people of Africa) were educated and trained in science and medicine, this science remained for many of them a ghostly alien thing they only pretended to believe in. And this was the root reason for the AIDS pandemic in Africa. I mean, if you are a senior doctor, you will allow reuse of non-sterile syringes only if you don't truly believe in blood-borne pathogens.

Anglo-Libyan said...

yes Ahmed, the whole thing has become an international game!

yes Suliman I used the Libyan name and I agree it is wrong :o)

this compensation does not seem to include the infected mothers meaning families with more than one person is infected then they only get compensated for one, how fair is this??
I do hope to read what you have to say about it soon.

living away, you have always made your views clear with this case and you have always stood by the children and their families. wish more people were like you.

music lover, failure of the Libyan health service is the reason for this and other tragidies in Libya and it seems it has not improved one bit. thank you for your points.

maya m, I have made it clear in my post that Libya should not be asking for compensation.
my point as a Libyan, is after all the fuss Libya made, its now saying our people are worth $1 million each, i.e. less than others, I never said it was the wests fault, in fact i made it clear that I never saw any real evidence to convict the foreign medics.
I am simply angry with the way Libya has no respect for its people.

Anonymous said...

إحساسي ماخانيش وقت قلت إنها لعبة إلتعبت علي البنغازه بصفة خاصة و علي الصغار...يعني الواحد مايصدقش ان مستشفي كبير في بنغازي يقوموا فيه ممرضات بلغاريات بنقل فايروس الايدز بروحهم منهم ليهم بدون إهمال الطاقم الطبي الليبي أو تدخل أطراف خفيفة للوصول للنهاية الباردة التي وصلت لها القضيه الأن...الهدف منها تدمير الأطفال وقتلهم و إنقاص عددهم في بنغازي خاصةً
وجمع الأموال الطائلة التي لن تسد جوع البعض لها ...

وهذه القضية ليست الأولي التي يتلم التلاعب بها و هنالك قضاي كثيرة أخري سمعنا بتلاعبات خفية فيها وتهم بلادنا
وليس عندنا جرأة علي ذكر ذلك

ربنا مع الظلماء و فوق الظالمين
==========
MusicLover/ نبي نقولك حاجة
علي فكرة الليبين مش اول ناس يهربوا من أطبائهم ولعدم ثقتهم فيهم للبلدان المجاورة خلي نذكرلك أمثلة
السوريين يهربوا للأردن من أطبابائهم اللاهثين وراء المادة

الأردنيين يهربون للأوروباء و للبنان للعلاج..

بعض الكويتيين يهربون لأوروباء للعلاج بدل العلاج في مستشفياتهم

Hibo

Anonymous said...

ربنا مع المظلومين وفوق الظالمين
Hibo

Anonymous said...

MusicLover/ نبي نقولك حاجة
علي فكرة الليبين مش اول ناس يهربوا من أطبائهم ولعدم ثقتهم فيهم للبلدان المجاورة خلي نذكرلك أمثلة
السوريين يهربوا للأردن من أطبابائهم اللاهثين وراء المادة

الأردنيين يهربون للأوروباء و للبنان للعلاج..

بعض الكويتيين يهربون لأوروباء للعلاج بدل العلاج في مستشفياتهم

Hibo


You remind me of my daughter when I ask her did you read? She tell me No I did not, so did my youngest sister. Using her sister as excuse for not reading.

Why do I have to look at other nationalities to justify for Libyans going abroad for health treatments.

Even my own sister, when she was pregnant she went to a hospital in USA, she told me Americans are spoiled. I got on her case, I told her why shouldn't I have the same privilages like an American patient in my own country. Why should the American patient lowers his standards.

I want to have the same quality of life as any citizen in Europe, Canada and USA and nothing less. Even Europeans, Canadians and Americans are going to Cuba, India and other countries because they have now top doctors and hospitals for less money.


In the movie of James Bond "Die Another Day" there were two facts which really present the present time. One is the Wacho of North Korea and the top medicine in Cuba even of the presence of United States embargo against Cuba since 1962. At least when Castro dies, he left a nation with the most literate people on Earth.

I do not understand this mentality of bad mouthing other nationalities to justify our actions.

MusicLover

Lost-Libyan said...

well, the way I see things is those people are innocent, I mean whats in it for them to do that?! I blame the poor hygiene system in the libyan hospitals! it makes more sense than the consiparcy theory!

Anglo-Libyan said...

thank you hibo and lost-libyan
although I dont think hygine alone is to blame other wise there will be millions of cases all over the world with less hygenic conditions than Libya.
and music lover, hibo is as all of us concerened and cares and knows what is wrong, she was just making a point :o)

Anonymous said...

Anglo-Libyan! Please don't remove the truth about The Benghazi HIV Incident. Your Anglo gene is overwhelmed by the Libyan gene, and you "suppress" the truth when you can. I liked the comment about the Libyans and their sexual practices. "Bad Hygiene" doe not cause AID's....it's the sexual practices and sharing needles.

More importantly we are forgetting a Muslim Brother who has forcibly been indicted in thi case. While the Bulgarians get media attention, the poor Palestenian with no place to call home gets the grind. We as Libyans have always been impressed by the "white-man" be it an Italian or a Bulgarian. We the Libyan people could never get the colonial yolk off of our necks.

Let the truth be told!

Anonymous said...

I agree with anonymous, I am 100% sure that Libyans will say the Arab ladies from other countries are the cause of the HIV/AIDS.

Libyans should learn to practise safe sex if they want to screw around. You want to use drugs, stick with Marijuana and Hash, at least you will not be infected with Aids.


As for Libyan women who do not want their men to be cheating on them, I advise you to be sexually active with your own men, or else they will looking somewhere else and risking being infected with Aids.



MusicLover

Anglo-Libyan said...

anonymous, you know very well why i removed your first comment, it was full of sexual vile words and you accused the parents of the sick children of infecting them, that was cruel and nasty.

I will not allow rude comments here, if you feel you want to be vulger then please go and do it somewhere else.

one more thing you said you liked the nasty comment! how come who ever wrote it and you share the same IP No. live in Ann Arbor Michigan USA and use the same cable company, Comcast Cable?
could you be the same person? or maybe my libyan genes are not clever enough!

Anonymous said...

I think the blogger has the right to remove a comment if he finds it offensive and vulgar. I am big believer of free of speech but there is a thin line you do not cross. There are female readers of this blog, we have to respect their presence.

In my opinion if a person answers yeah instead of yes I consider her/him uncivilized, because I consider it street talk. Even Bill Cosby bashed the African American community for using street talk on a daily basis. The young generation think street talk is a hip which is not.


I always find that Libyans who studied in Britain speak better English than the Libyans who studied in USA. It is a true statement because even Americans can not understand British humour or their own shows such as M*A*S*H because of the rich vocabulary used in the dialogue.


“When once the forms of civility are violated, there remains little hope of return to kindness or decency” Samuel Johnson

MusicLover.

Anonymous said...

OK Einstein! You have traced my cable company...now what?Are you going to send the "Mukhabbaraat" to come after me.

Th fact of the matter is HIV does not fall out of the sky.It is a virus that replicates within the body fluids, and once natural or un-natural method of copualtion occurs, males or females can be infected. It is well known that even baboons indluldging in un-natural sex harbor HIV. Prior to 1982 and thereafter, Libyan men were on a rampage induldging in sexual activity across the globe. Was it a Nouveau Riche phenomenon? Very likely!

We have to start taking responsibility for our ills or we will forever perish!

And by the way your "Libyan Genes" are better than the "Anglo Genes". Be proud of your heritage.

Anonymous said...

Anglo-Libyan and Anonymous I think both you are not scoring any points with the readers of this blog.

Vulgarity & Censorship are not acceptable.


Anglo-Libyan you have the right to censor someone if he/she posted vulgar words but I do not think you have the right to censor someone based on his/her insensitive words regarding the case.If you find that the person only purpose is to disrupt this blog, then cut him/her off.


Anglo-Libyan your response to Anonymous raises a concern, which you mentioned you know where he lives, his IP number and his internet provider. The information you should have kept it to yourself and not share it with the public. You are giving an impression that you want to know each anonymous where he/she lives. To me I consider it violation of privacy.


Two wrongs do not make a right


MusicLover

Anglo-Libyan said...

Music Lover
you have been so unfair to me
did you see his original comment where he was very vulgar not to me but to all Libyan men and women using the worst language? then he lied about writing that comment.
the reason I published his details (and I didnt publish his IP)is to prove that it is the same person and not 2 different people.

you have no right to tell me im wrong as you do not know the full story, I can not cut him/her off.

I made it clear that I deleted his comment because it was vulgar and not because of what you call insensitive words.
you are very wrong and because of you and the vile anonymous I am going to stop all Anonymous commenting, you have both insulted me.

Maya M said...

For the record: the HIV-positive mothers in Benghazi were infected by their children, most likely during breast-feeding. This is the conclusion of a group of Italian doctors who have done research on many of the infected children and mothers and tried to reconstruct the history of the infection (Visco-Comandini U. et al., 2002, AIDS Res. Hum. Retroviruses, 18: 727-32).
So people making irresponsible claims would better do their homework first.
In fact, many (if not most) other African AIDS victims seem to have contracted the disease the same way as Benghazi children. "Evidence permits the interpretation that health care exposures caused more HIV than sexual transmission... Preconceptions about African sexuality and a desire to maintain public trust in health care may have encouraged discounting of evidence" (Gisselquist D. et al., 2003, Int. J. STD AIDS, 14:148-61; see also http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn4442).
However, from some blog comments I have the impression that many Libyans are convinced that the high HIV prevalence in Sub-Saharan Africa is due to promiscuity.
And even if it is, so what? Does this disqualify the sufferers from human race?
I feel a bit uneasy that both the anonymous commenter and AngloLibyan seem to think that if a "promiscuous" person gets HIV, then s/he is to blame, no problem and case closed. The disagreement between them was mainly whether Libyans and particularly Libyan women fit this description.
I find it unfortunate that HIV right from the beginning was regarded as God's punishment for sinners (first, it was for homosexuals). Apart from being at odds with my values, I don't think this is the attitude we need in confronting AIDS.
Some cultures and people are more open towards sex, some are more strict. I'd wish to see less finger-pointing.

Anglo-Libyan said...

maya m
you said: I feel a bit uneasy that both the anonymous commenter and AngloLibyan seem to think that if a "promiscuous" person gets HIV, then s/he is to blame

when did I say or even hinted at that? I have always accepted your critisism with an open heart but this time you are way too WRONG
please do not assume anything about me.
I know people that have this disease, I never ever in my blog or any where else suggested or mentioned that promiscuous people get HIV, I really feel angry about this and will not accept it from you or anyone else.
I suggest you read all of my posts regarding this case before you make any statements.

the disagreement was because anonymous accused Libyan men of having anal sex with their wives and therefore infected their wives and then children. where did you get your information if you have not seen the comments I deleted.

maya m, this time you are VERY WRONG

Maya M said...

AngloLibyan, you are right that you have never said that, I had the impression that you "hinted" at that in the first sentences of your July 21 post (which I had read before writing my previous comment here). However, attempts to read between the lines often result in reading things that actually aren't there, this seems to have been the case with me. I apologize to you.
I of course knew nothing about the anal sex claims of the Anonymous, if this hadn't been said in a relation to a tragedy, it would be funny. When somebody makes such unsubstantiated claims about other people's sexual lives, we often ask him, "How do you know, have you illuminated them? (i.e. have you held a lamp above the bed as the couple in question were making sex?"
That Anonymous seems to have read a site or two about anal sex being most efficient for HIV transmission and have jumped to the conclusion - if a person is HIV+, then s/he must have made anal sex.

alleebyana said...

Anglo-Libyan... and others who share the same opinion...it's about time! I was beginning to feel as if I was the only Libyan with this opinion; it seems to me that other Arabs, and most Libyans, have the ignorant view of the guilt resting on the nurses, and not the government. I, as a scientist, have reviewed the information I have about the case, and I personally feel that the accusations are scientifically almost impossible for the nurses to have committed and I grow tired of other ignorant people screaming for the nurses to be hanged, without not only knowing the facts, but understanding the facts. As for the compensation the victim’s families received, it is no different than the moneys many malpractice law suits in America glean. Damage was done, and the money is not haram.

alleebyana said...

And as for the comment referencing to the spread of HIV and Libyan men being unfaithful to their wives, HIV is a complex virus with over 10 very different strains and it takes more than one, sometimes many, exposures till the virus is transmitted to a new host. Believe it or not, HIV is not a very hardy virus. And individuals who choose to practice infidelity themselves have deceitful character and when they cheat, they are acting only for their own selfish benefit, no matter the cost to themselves or others. Cheating has nothing to do with how often a wife has sex with her husband. It is never the innocent’s fault that the guilty party goes astray. It is in the cheater’s bad moral character.

Anglo-Libyan said...

salam alleebyana
welcome to my blog :o)

can you please read my post and my other posts about Aids properly.
I have always made it clear that I do not think that the nurses and doctor are guilty and that there are other forces (Libyan) that I believe caused this tragedy, I dont have to be a scientist to know that, so please dont call me ignorant until you read my opinion, have a good day.

Sadeq said...

Anglo-Libyan! First off please change your screen name. It's confusing to say the least! You are either Anglo or Libyan. Decide for yourself.
Most of the posts (including yours) repeatedly stressed upon the fact that Libyan Parents were in no way responsible for the HIV infested children. HIV does not "Just Happen"...someone has had to have un-safe sex to be infected and pass it on. You are worried about "women and children" reading the comments which you feel are inappropriate...believe me it's important that everyone gets educated about HIV and safe sex practices. You are a "whiner" and thats the best way to categorize you. Your mannerisms are suggestive of someone with narcissistic personality traits which are typical of folks with varied sexual preferences.
Saif-ul-Islam was on BBC's Hard Talk yesterday and explicitly admitted to the fact that police forced the admissions and Libyan Doctors corroborated with the police and the accused were indeed innocent.
Get a Life!

Anglo-Libyan said...

sadeg or is it liar?

my screen name is non of your business.

you are so sure of yourself, does that mean your family practice unsafe sex? did you educate your mother and sisters or is it too late for them??

clear off, you are not welcome here ya jahel.

alleebyana said...

Salam Anglo-Libyan,

My apologies, in the mis-direction of my post, I was no referring to you when I mentioned the word ignorant. I share you same opinion concerning the innocent of the Bulgarian nurses and Palestinian doctor. This is the message that I was trying to convey. I have had many discussions with individuals, Libyan and non alike who do not understand the complete corruption of the current Libyan government and the neglect that our people suffer from everyday. I am obviously not a ‘greenie’, but besides this fact, I do believe in the innocent of the nurses and doctor since they, logically, could not have committed this crime, since many of the children they are charged with killing, died before they ever arrived in Libya for work. The Libyan government has just found an easy scapegoat to throw to the masses and avoid responsibility. Also, some, but of course not all, of the children came into Libya already infected with HIV from Niger, Chad, and the Sudan, they crossed the border to seek medical treatment in a country that they felt had somewhat a more promising future than in their home countries.

And why are there individuals questioning one’s race, and the subject of ‘pick a side’ and ‘good genes v. bad ones’. This is actually slightly offensive, and amusing to me. The whole Libyan race is an ethnic mosaic! I have an Anglo-Saxton mother, and I am proud of both my sides. My husband, is an Afghani-Kashmiri, so are my children supposed to divide themselves into quarters and ignore all of their other ancestors? This makes no since!

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